Curse

Patrick Smit · Apr 15, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

for the exact statistics on 40/40 Wod its like 0.25 sec for cast and 10 secs for recharge. in 40% of the cases it will be 0.125 sec for cast and 5 sec for recharge meaning 0.6(0.25+10)+0.4(0.125+5) with an average recharge of like 8.2 seconds (including casttime) and a hex time of 4 seconds. This means WoD is up like slightly less then 50% of the time.

The problem here is the psychological (and also the in game) effect of a fast recharged WoD has. If that happend once or twice on you, then you will not forget that moment, seeming like Wod was always on you like a magnet on iron.

Teh Jace · Apr 15, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

I got no problem with WoD except vs identity (we won last 3 matches vs them - heroic 6mins lasting battles with tons of corpses all over the map

). The problem is when a nec keeps u on his/her target and rly spams it on recharge u might be in a bad situation very quickly. U might say some skills still work even under WoD (like sh bash which I use often) but they are useless most of the time cuz an enraged warr with full adren and brain rly wont attack WoDed Mo/W if he knows he/she has sh bash recharged and rdy to use.

So basically u are under WoD, u cant heal and u have to watch ur mates getting dmg. When WoD ends u quickly cast WoH/ZB (cuz u cant afford to risk HSR on WoD) then u might get WoDed again... or not.

WoD is not a problem for me and not a problem for u. All TA necros are garbage atm but remember this post when u face identity and wish ur monk good luck.

Seraphim of Chaos · Apr 15, 2008, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

lol wot da fok :P who brings complicate in arenas? /agree with everything else though

Why not? People can't adapt to the meta?

urania · Apr 15, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

thats a pretty bad adaptation...

C2K · Apr 15, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Complicate can interrupt any skill with a casting time, so I can't see why people are treating it like the pre-buff Otuygh Cry. Its no where near as useless as some mesmer elites are.

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 16, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

thats a pretty bad adaptation...

If you're one of the few teams that run dom it's not a bad skill to bring

valence · Apr 16, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Depends on your goal. You want to shutdown humil sig, yes it does his job (though fakecasts will still beat you). If it is shutting down SoM it won't do anything. Mesmer can either fake or not cast humil sig.

So you got an interrupt once every 20 seconds that can dshot a res sig. I'm not convinced why it would be good on a dom mesmer.

yum · Apr 16, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Rez sig.......

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 16, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by valence

Depends on your goal. You want to shutdown humil sig, yes it does his job (though fakecasts will still beat you). If it is shutting down SoM it won't do anything. Mesmer can either fake or not cast humil sig.

So you got an interrupt once every 20 seconds that can dshot a res sig. I'm not convinced why it would be good on a dom mesmer.

Fake cast won't beat a mesmer who knows what he's doing. Complicate can shut down SoM fine, I can hit it regularly and my ping is always pretty bad. And yes, there's the obvious interrupt on rez sig for when your ranger is eliminated for whatever reason.

C2K · Apr 16, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by valence

Depends on your goal. You want to shutdown humil sig, yes it does his job (though fakecasts will still beat you). If it is shutting down SoM it won't do anything. Mesmer can either fake or not cast humil sig.

So you got an interrupt once every 20 seconds that can dshot a res sig. I'm not convinced why it would be good on a dom mesmer.

Its not as easy to fake cast against a good mesmer than it is a ranger, because the mesmer interrupt is not a projectile

And if you complicate a res signet, you lock down the rest of their signets for X seconds, so it effectively hits SoM or Humility.

urania · Apr 16, 2008, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

If you're one of the few teams that run dom it's not a bad skill to bring

I reckon your bar would look sth like this then (assuming you'd play a Me/E):

-Elite (basicaly, its the utility slot, I usually take either SoM or expell hexes)
-diversion
-shame
-blackout
-enchantement removal (i take inspired ench)
-Gole
-complicate (another utility slot, i go for ether feast if in RA, but in ta...i normally took mantra of conc)
-rez sig

The problem is (think I already discussed this in some of my posts...) one has to make a decision then whether you wil ditch ur ranger and take nec for defense or ditch ur defense for greater offense and keep the ranger (I'd make him a crip shot, even if the elite fares fairly bad in TA...it gives a bit of defense, at least, and can be used offensively as well).
Most ppl go for the necro instead of the ranger, I'd say.

Also, ever seen the casting time of humility while under simbolic celerity? its like a fast casted 1 second spell, I think, so unless you strip the mesmer's ench, hope to have a decent ping and good reflexes. And good observation skills since most of the time you will need to be shutting down the monk (assuming your bar would look like the one i named).

Last but not least, interrupting SoM on reflex is very hard, since its a fc'ed 3/4 cast. Its only on prediction when they approach a physical to blind them, and even then you can still get outfaked and use the interrupt too early.

the_deSKtructor · Apr 16, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

I reckon your bar would look sth like this then (assuming you'd play a Me/E):

-Elite (basicaly, its the utility slot, I usually take either SoM or expell hexes)
-diversion
-shame
-blackout
-enchantement removal (i take inspired ench)
-Gole
-complicate (another utility slot, i go for ether feast if in RA, but in ta...i normally took mantra of conc)
-rez sig

The problem is (think I already discussed this in some of my posts...) one has to make a decision then whether you wil ditch ur ranger and take nec for defense or ditch ur defense for greater offense and keep the ranger (I'd make him a crip shot, even if the elite fares fairly bad in TA...it gives a bit of defense, at least, and can be used offensively as well).
Most ppl go for the necro instead of the ranger, I'd say.

Also, ever seen the casting time of humility while under simbolic celerity? its like a fast casted 1 second spell, I think, so unless you strip the mesmer's ench, hope to have a decent ping and good reflexes. And good observation skills since most of the time you will need to be shutting down the monk (assuming your bar would look like the one i named).

Last but not least, interrupting SoM on reflex is very hard, since its a fc'ed 3/4 cast. Its only on prediction when they approach a physical to blind them, and even then you can still get outfaked and use the interrupt too early.

You don't want to get the SoM with complicate. You want to get the hum sig (which is far easier) to also disable SoM.

Patrick Smit · Apr 16, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Fake cast won't beat a mesmer who knows what he's doing. Complicate can shut down SoM fine, I can hit it regularly and my ping is always pretty bad. And yes, there's the obvious interrupt on rez sig for when your ranger is eliminated for whatever reason.

[build prof=Mesmer/Necromancer name="SoM shite" fastcast=9 curses=12 box][signet of midnight][plague sending][/build]It depends on the Me/N but a fast cast signet might prove quite difficult to interupt, esspecially with bad ping. you have 0.3 seconds to react AND send your command to the server. Ok SoM can be predicted well because the mesmer towards its target, but with a faking mesmer it will prove very difficult i.m.o.

Complicate by it self isn't that a bad skill but the recharge isnt in line with for example power lock.

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 16, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Yes, it's incredibly difficult to hit it, and probably impossible vs. a smart mesmer, but if you can hit SoH you disable it anyway. Also, if you can land a FC Diversion you'll probably hit it too. But yeah, enough of this theorycrafting ;D

I know complicate isn't amazing, I just said it wasn't bad and should be considered.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Apr 16, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Complicate by it self isn't that a bad skill but the recharge isnt in line with for example power lock.

complicate is pretty bad imo, compared to dshot, dshot is so godly, because of a longer shutdown and a shorter recharge, for less energy etc,

C2K · Apr 16, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

complicate is pretty bad imo, compared to dshot, dshot is so godly, because of a longer shutdown and a shorter recharge, for less energy etc,

So mesmers should take dshot? I don't know, I think if you want to bash complicate, you should use mesmer interrupts to prove your point, not ranger interrupts.

Other than that, you can put any interrupt next to dshot, and dshot will always look the best.

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 17, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

comparing complicate to dshot is just stupid.

Master Ketsu · Apr 17, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

IMO its biggest problem is the 1/4 cast. Makes it easy to slip through veil, and makes it un-interruptible which is a very bad thing considering how it can be used in a spike.

1 sec cast.

Zena Starlight · Apr 17, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

.... But wasn't its point to be used in spikes?

Patrick Smit · Apr 17, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

complicate is pretty bad imo, compared to dshot, dshot is so godly, because of a longer shutdown and a shorter recharge, for less energy etc,

Guardian, Escape, Natural slide, physical projectile (line of sight) needed to interupt. There are much differences between D-shot and interupt spells, but then mesmers and rangers are different.

Rangers have difficulties removing enchants, and preventing casters from casting using diversion. Furthermore they dont have armor ignoring damage.